Archived Comments
Jocelyn Malone
June 27, 2019 at 01:28 AM UTC
I haven’t been able to read through all the comments yet, but here are my thoughts:
My money is on Pet as an heirling in some way–her parents were clearly in hiding from SOMETHING, and I think they probably weren’t vanilla-standard humans of some kind. I would not be unhappy to find that it’s a twist and she’s something we haven’t learned about yet, though.
This book, particularly, had a lot of funny moments, it’s hard to pick!
I don’t think she has a favorite any more. She did earlier on, but having lived with all three for a while, she has clearly found things she likes in all three. It will be very interesting to see the direction different relationships take, since there are quite a few books still ahead!
There’s no way Morgana is entirely human (or at least, living a fully human life), but the jury is out (to me) on whether Morgana herself knows (or guesses) that. Whether she’s playing human or really doesn’t realize the weirdness around her we’ll have to wait and see. I really like Pet’s friendship with her, so I hope it doesn’t take a creepy-bad turn at some point (I’m not seeing that just yet, but you never know).
Eleniel
June 27, 2019 at 05:32 PM UTC
Having read Shades of Blue, I have to wonder if Morgana isn’t part mer. Like Marazul. It would explain why she’s stuck in bed if there’s something wrong with her legs. And she sounds raspy when she breathes- maybe she’s not used to air. Just a thought.
Lynn
June 27, 2019 at 06:08 PM UTC
That would be awesome! I’d like that twist if Morgana being a part Mer and her name and appearance being a red herring. What do you think all of the “kids” are? There is something really creepy feeling there. Do you think it’s also a red herring designed to make us worry but is not as creepy as we’re thinking? Or is it something sinister?
Colleen
June 28, 2019 at 05:40 AM UTC
Morgana’s setup with the mirrors makes her a dead ringer for Elaine! From the poem Lady of Shalott ( I think WR Gingell might be following poems in this series?). Plus with her name Morgana, has to be a way to bring more of Arthurian legend into City Between, but think of it!! Super exciting to think if w r Gingell explains Arthurian legend in our world the way Diana Wynn’s Jones explains Arthurian legend in Hexwood! Eg by explaining more of the Behind and Between worlds and how Arthurian legends (and where Arthur is buried…?) fit in behind and between and behindkind…? Other thoughts from between frames on the Arthurian link – don’t want to spoil it—-ugh waiting !
Lynn
June 28, 2019 at 07:20 PM UTC
Great catch Colleen and another very intriguing possibility. I am not familiar with that poem but taking a quick look online it does bear a striking resemblance. I would never had known about it if you hadn’t mentioned it here.
Lynn
June 27, 2019 at 02:23 AM UTC
I hope Pet’s friendship with Morgana continues and grows too. Pet needs some strong female friendships since she is surrounded by males. But I am worried about all the strangeness that surrounds Morgana and what that might mean. So all of this to say that, like you, I hope that friendship doesn’t take a creepy-bad turn!
Lindsay
June 26, 2019 at 02:22 AM UTC
Okay so, I’ve been reading these books from the start and I have to say JinYeong is my favorite character, hands down. He is SUCH a little turd sometimes that it makes me laugh. And he sprays himself down with cologne like a teenage boy with Axe body spray.
And when Pet took just one ring off the curtain rods and then made all the pictures in the house off center just to mess with him… that’s HILARIOUS!
I love these books so much. As to a romantic attachment… I havent read the newest book yet (I’m waiting for a block of uninterrupted time) but as of book 3 she seems to kinda like Marazul, the half merman from the short story. But it’s hard to say.
All three of the psychos are attached to her in their own ways, despite their best efforts to remain unmoved.
I just wish I knew korean so I knew exactly what JinYeong is saying. 🙂
Elizabeth
June 25, 2019 at 04:18 AM UTC
Now I’m sorry I waited so long to come here. It’s a lot of fun! It’s really interesting to see how the same event is interpreted in different ways. I had just assumed that the reason a fake Pet was used to try and get info out of Athelas was because of the familiar way she spoke (or was trying to speak) with Athelas when she called him. But obviously they knew who she was, even if Athelas didn’t really buy the reproduction. Someone knew enough to pretend to be Zero when she tried calling from Between.
I also wasn’t really picking up on Athelas being gentler as he killed her, since she woke up one time thinking he’d cradled her head as she died, but when she really woke up Zero was the one doing that and the other time JinYeong was the one with his arms around her. I saw it more as Zero and JinYeong being horrified by what they’d just seen and wanting to comfort Pet. Maybe both can be true? I do think that killing someone who seemed like Pet so many times was really wearing Athelas down. It was interesting that he was so determined to keep sensitive Pet-related info from his kidnappers.
Faith
June 25, 2019 at 08:04 AM UTC
Yes, it’s so interesting to see everyone’s thoughts! I assumed both were true and it was more of an artistic coincidence and/or dream magic that they ended up doing both at the same time. It’s a bonus that I loved about the whole process- not only do you get to see how much he cares about Pet, you get to see all three of them upset about her death in their own way.
Rachael Liankatawa
June 25, 2019 at 03:36 AM UTC
I love the zapping scene with JinYeong! One of my all-time favorites! Though soothing her with the times tables was such a cute scene as well.
I think Pet prefers them all in different ways. Zero for protection, Athelas for information, and JinYeong for entertainment 😂. I originally thought she preferred Zero to anyone else if we’re talking romance…but I don’t think so now (but that is due to already having read the next book).
Caitlin
June 25, 2019 at 11:49 PM UTC
It was shocking to me (in an absolutely delightful way) to see JinYeong do something unquestionably, unselfishly *nice* for Pet. He is really growing on me as a character. Also I love your idea Elizabeth’s idea that this is something he used to do for his sister <3
Elizabeth
June 25, 2019 at 04:25 AM UTC
I really liked the times tables part as well. It’s the kind of thing I can imagine him doing that as a kid for his sister when she was afraid or upset. Maybe he did. Maybe he was into math before and then that got super magnified when he was turned and that’s why he’s so “numbers loving” now.
Faith Kim
June 25, 2019 at 05:33 PM UTC
It is a great scene. That is a really sweet idea, I hadn’t thought of that. 🙂
Rachael Liankatawa
June 25, 2019 at 04:32 AM UTC
I love the idea of him comforting his sister that way. Maybe he was also already ocd before becoming a vampire!
Caitlin
June 24, 2019 at 09:58 AM UTC
This is my favorite book too!!! And for so many reasons that it is hard for me to coherently discuss them 😛 But I will try.
Funniest scene: For me, hands down, it is the biscuit-chase scene near the end of the book. I love that scene and always end up re-reading it a few times before finally finishing the book. It has so much humor plus I love the way each character’s personality, and their relationship with Pet, shines so clearly in such a lighthearted scene. It also shows how enmeshed in everyones’ lives Pet has become—whether they are willing to admit it or not.
Other laugh out loud moments:
-Pet threatening Athelas with supermarket tea. As an avid tea drinker myself, I found this threat both hilarious and diabolical.
-Tuatu’s texts. Nuff said.
-Athelas is Fae Google. (“This is why I needed an Athelas. He might be tricky to deal with, but at least he didn’t run out of data or battery.”)
-Zero loves pancakes. Not actually a joke, but it makes me grin from ear to ear to know that about him.
-JinYeong’s genuine shock and horror when Pet disparages his magnificent self. Like telling him he stinks, or is too old to be called Oppa. I died.
Lingering Questions:
-Why did JinYeong fall asleep and what is the significance of that fact? It must be significant since JinYeong was surprised AND lied about it to Zero. Plus Pet has said before that the vampire does not sleep.
-Why does Pet check under her bed?
Plot Inklings and Other Musings:
-“Even if my parents had turned evil for a bit, I still don’t thing I’d be able to forgive someone for killing them.” That better not be foreshadowing Ms. Athelas-The-Twisty-Author!
-The scene with Pet and JinYeong at the end (with the suit). On the first read through, I took that to mean that it was not worth it for Pet to get between Zero and JinYeong and try to keep the peace between them. But I kind of like Kitty’s theory better 😀
-I think Pet finds Zero to be the most comfortable/comforting to be around so far. She has the most faith in him to protect her. And she seems to find his solid, silent presence comforting. Not sure if that is the same as liking him the best though or not.
-What is Pet and what is Morgana? Gonna save my thoughts for the next discussion when there is no danger of spoilers 😀
Jocelyn Malone
June 26, 2019 at 03:23 AM UTC
The supermarket tea delighted me, too (I am also a huge tea drinker and mostly go loose-leaf).
Caitlin
June 26, 2019 at 05:26 AM UTC
Yes! Tea connoisseurs unite 😀
Eleniel
June 26, 2019 at 07:19 PM UTC
Tea is better than coffee in my opinion. It’s a nuanced process though, finding one that has the right balance in taste. (I sound like a snob) 😀
W.R. Gingell
June 27, 2019 at 11:01 AM UTC
Connoisseurs unite! I can’t drink coffee (though I love the smell), but I LOVE my leaf tea <3 =)
Eleniel
June 27, 2019 at 05:42 PM UTC
I’ll take of few sips if my dad has a really good black coffee, but otherwise it has to be very sweet and made with twice as much milk as coffee. Tea is still better, though!
Caitlin
June 27, 2019 at 08:55 AM UTC
Not a snob—connoisseur. Or at least that is what I tell myself cause other wise I am definitely a tea snob. It is so much better than coffee though, and the hunt for a really good blend just adds to the fun.
Eleniel
June 27, 2019 at 05:35 PM UTC
It really is. My mother has a specific way she likes tea- a good black, not too smoky, steeped five minutes. Add a spoonful of honey and enough milk to make it caramel colored, and bam. (I was always the main tea child. 😛 )
W.R. Gingell
June 26, 2019 at 08:34 AM UTC
Yeah, we can make new blends that way 😉
Rachael Liankatawa
June 25, 2019 at 04:30 AM UTC
Ooh I didn’t think about the significance of JinYeong falling asleep. Maybe being around Pet makes him more human? I figured he lied to Zero because he was embarrassed about spending/wasting time comforting Pet when Athelas was in danger.
Faith
June 25, 2019 at 06:42 AM UTC
Hm, that’s a good point! I also figured that he lied to Zero for the reasons you mentioned above, and I still do. But maybe there’s more to it? Zero knew he could sleep because that was required for helping Pet out that night, so I didn’t think him sleeping in itself was something to hide. Thinking about it again though, it could still be significant that he fell asleep after the whole magical visit to Athelas (as Caitlin said, he was surprised, he doesn’t usually sleep, and the magical nature of the visit may have been an exception).
I’ve never considered it, but your theory about making him more human is interesting. There are actually a few other things besides him falling asleep that could be explained if it were true. The fact that Jinyeong can’t smell her or anything else when he’s with her and Athelas’ constant amusement with how she affects Jinyeong and vague comments and curiosity on how she seems to change him could both point to her making him more human when they’re together. It could also explain why he’s so warm, which Pet mentions all the time. I assumed it was the way vampires are in this book (like how he can eat garlic, etc), but it could just as easily be something else.
Either way, I’ve never considered the possibility of what Pet’s affects on Jinyeong might mean beyond making her identity ambiguous and confusing, but now this is making me wonder… What other affects does she have on him besides messing with his smell? And why?
Rachael Liankatawa
June 25, 2019 at 08:07 AM UTC
Yes, I was thinking about the warm comments too. Is he always warm or just when he’s around Pet? Not much way of knowing since she is the pov but an interesting thought to be on the lookout for clues in future books! It’s fun to think that JinYeong might get some of his humanity back. Although I’m also of the theory that if he and Pet end up together then Pet is going to be completely immune to turning vampire.
Faith Kim
June 25, 2019 at 05:37 PM UTC
That was another thing I was considering. If they do end up together, him becoming more human when he’s with her could help clear up the whole different species issue.
Also, really? Someone mentioned he was cold?? Now that you mention it, it actually sounds vaguely familiar…
Elizabeth
June 26, 2019 at 12:33 PM UTC
Sorry, just to clarify, I could absolutely be that JinYeong is warmer because of Pet and that he’s different in other ways around her as well.
Elizabeth
June 26, 2019 at 12:19 PM UTC
I thought I remembered something about JinYeong being cold as well. Looks like in Between Floors his mouth is both cold and warm when he’s biting her on the shoulder to heal her. Then when Pet and JinYeong are hiding under that desk in the police station his fingers are cold when he grabs her wrist. She calls him a “dead cold fish” too. Looks like his hand is cold when he’s holding it over her eyes towards the end as well.
It’s kinda funny, Pet talks about how he won’t feel cold a few times, but if I remember correctly, every time he takes a shower he uses a lot of hot water. Could be just because he enjoys it, or just because he can.
But I do remember plenty of other times when she’s surprised that he’s warm. Maybe he’s warmer when he’s had blood recently? Not sure. After all, people are warm sometimes and cold sometimes too, right?
Lynn
June 25, 2019 at 06:48 PM UTC
I’m not sure I connected all of this with JIn Yeong. That’s why I love book discussions. Other people always catch stuff you miss, especially in a world as complicated as this with as little information as we get. Plus there are the red herrings. I’ll probably do a quick reread before book 6 or 7 and now I’ll have more to keep my eye on, like the changes in Jin Yeong..
Kadi
June 25, 2019 at 10:28 AM UTC
I feel like someone mentions JinYeong being cold at some point. I will have to go back and check it out but I’ve never put it together all the different ways she affects him like not smelling like food and him being warm and the sleeping. So interesting!
Faith
June 25, 2019 at 04:26 AM UTC
Yes, I also loved the biscuit scene, for ALL the reasons you mentioned above! Like you said, they way it showed how enmeshed Pet’s life vice versa, their personalities, the unique ways they’re close to each other, the humor, etc… Such an awesome scene to end on! I also re-read it so many times before finishing a re-read of the book…. 😀
Also, for whatever reason, I was completely blanking on what the texts were until now. Which is ridiculous because they were one of my favorites to start with! But I just remembered, and I agree with what you and what so many other have mentioned… They are so, SO hilarious.
Eleniel
June 24, 2019 at 01:43 AM UTC
I don’t know. But whatever she is, I am almost positive the “Kids” are some sort of Behindkind. They seem shady to me.
Lynn
June 24, 2019 at 06:32 AM UTC
That whole situation seems shady to me too. There is definitely more there than we know yet. I also don’t buy these absentee parents bit. Something is off. I can’t figure out why Pet hasn’t picked up on the weird except for the fact that she’s lived with weird for quite a while. I guess going with the weird is how she’s survived to an extent.
Caitlin
June 24, 2019 at 10:19 AM UTC
I agree. The situation with Morgana seems really odd. But I also agree that Pet’s sense of what constitutes “normal human behavior” may be a bit off.
Kadi
June 24, 2019 at 01:18 AM UTC
This Book was so amazing. There are so many different parts that I just loved.
So first of all I totally think that Pet is some kind of behindkind and that her parents or one parent was as well. I also think she is a heirling as well. There is too much about her that is strange and not quite human that makes me sure the she can’t be all human and the fact that she can pick up the sword makes me thinking she can be a heirling( I hope that is this books. I admit I’ve read ahead).
I have to admit I don’t know if I have a favorite funny scene. There are a lot of good ones such as the kiss from JinYeong, and the text from the detective. Pet is just a funny character and her interactions with everyone are pretty great and I can’t choose a favorite.
Also I really couldn’t say if Pet prefers one over others. I think , like is mentioned in other comments, she looks at them each differently but is starting to love them all. She always jokes about being their Pet but in her dedication to helping them and finding Athelas you can tell she really cares. I think she thinks of Zero as the pig boss and her protector, Athelas is her mentor and JinYeong is her annoying friend who is always pestering her but she enjoys pestering him back.
I think someone made a good comment that Pet sometimes has a hard time identifying her feelings and I think that makes it hard for her to choose one of another. I don’t think at this point she see’s anyone as a romantic interest yet but I think JinYeong is starting to become more interested in her that way.
I totally noticed how gently Athelas would hold her head each time he would kill her. Even though that was so sad I still love how those experiences developed their relationship and showed that she is someone important to him.
I just can’t wait to see how this series develops more!!! I feel like we are still only just getting glimpses of everything and there is still so much yet to come!
Kadi
June 24, 2019 at 01:21 AM UTC
*big boss
Auto correct is the worst
W.R. Gingell
June 24, 2019 at 05:27 AM UTC
No, autocorrect is the best because “pig boss” made me laugh SO MUCH 😂😂😂
Diane_L
June 23, 2019 at 12:05 AM UTC
I totally missed the connection to the poem The Highway Man! I’m ashamed because that is one of my favorite poems, too. (Obviously not favorite enough to have memorized the lines, though.)
I re-read this book and took tons of notes, which I probably won’t get to use. I, too, think that pet is an Heirling, and that her paralyzed friend is either a lot more than she seems, or the circumstances around her are. And I’m sure the kids are some kind of Behindkind, too.
I’m also certain that Zero is so reluctant to help because of what happened the first time he made an unofficial unit in the Enforcers to do so. I wonder who it was that worked with him who was killed. His family seems to excel at murdering those close to someone in order to control them.
What about Jin Yeong’s comment that at some time in the future Pet would smile when she smelled the fragrance of his cologne somewhere because it would remind her of him? That seems to me to show the possibility that he wants a closer relationship with Pet.
And does anyone else have trouble with Athelas’s name reminding them of the Greek word (alétheia ) for”truth”? It’s obviously NOT the same, but it keeps niggling at me
Faith Kim
June 23, 2019 at 12:48 AM UTC
I totally missed that connection with the highwayman too, and I thought it was so cool!
Yeah, in the words Ms. KM Shea, I think it’s pretty clear Jin Yeong’s “got it BAD for pet”. I’m pretty sure he’s starting to like her in a romantic way, and if not romantically, he makes it pretty clear he really likes her period. In addition, oh boy, here comes a long one. It’s just hard not saying too much about Between Floors. :/ The primary way Koreans show care and affection tend to innately be less verbal, and it was very fun for me to see that type affection build with each passing book in someone like Jinyeong, where that tendency obviously would be doubly, triply true.
And then, I think we can all agree- all that care sure culminated in this one! Intuition, actions, and food (with a very special emphasis on FOOD) are foundational to how Koreans show care. So as a Korean, when I saw him carefully watching her, sporadically looking out for her, randomly doing stuff to help her, and (emphasis on this next one) shoving food towards her or telling her to eat when she seems down/not doing well, was a huge, heartwarming red flag about how much he actually cares about her. Additionally, note when Pet complains about “what’s up with you and personal space?” XD Becoming close to someone as a Korean sometimes means personal space instinctively ceases to really exist anymore. I don’t whether it was intentionally done that way to show that or not, but it definitely made me laugh out loud at the accuracy.
Diane
June 23, 2019 at 01:31 AM UTC
I didn’t know that about Korean culture, Faith. It certainly ups the ante with his interactions with Pet. And how he might interpret her interactions with him. I do agree that she reacts to each of them differently as kind-of like siblings/family. And one of the ways she shows care is with food. Pancakes for Zero, special tea and shortbread for Athelas, and blood sncks and kimchi for JinYeong. JinYeong might read more into it than is justified.
Not a very vigorous discussion today. I was so hoping for one. Pet said that Athelas killing her showed that he could be wrong. I was wondering if he was actually also right. Pet couldn’t escape the first dream until after she found the construct holding him in the dream and he killed her. And he was certainly right that escaping from imprisonment by moonlight required self-sacrifice.
Faith Kim
June 23, 2019 at 01:44 AM UTC
That is an interesting thought- I think you’re right, he was at least partially right. But I think Pet was referring more to the fact that he thought that she wasn’t actually herself when he was killing her, which he was wrong about.
Concerning cultural differences, I don’t know if it would necessarily cause any misunderstandings, but I think it does add a fun layer. I personally don’t think he would misinterpret her giving him food as something more than it actually is (when I meant care and affection, I meant all types, aka family and friendship as well, not just romance, and particularly at this pont, it’s pretty clear that Pet doesn’t have feelings for him), but I do think it seems to make him particularly happy, which again, is fun for me to see. 😀
Lynn
June 23, 2019 at 06:11 PM UTC
It’s great to have the input of someone who understands the Korean culture and things we might miss. I have sensed that Pet misunderstands some of Jin Yeong’s actions and what they mean. She usually thinks everything he does it to annoy her. But he used to be human and is probably the most connected to his humanity of all 3 psychos, so to think that he is just like the other two would be to discount both his Korean background and any ties left to his humanity.
I wonder if Jin Yeong’s “cologne” is his vampire smell or something. I’ve wondered this for a while.
Faith
June 25, 2019 at 07:40 AM UTC
Thank you for the heads up! I thought that was probably the case, but I still occasionally wondered. Now I can relax in the full hilarity of it. 😀
Also, Lynn, I also agree about Pet misunderstanding him sometimes. We had some awesome relationship moments between Pet and Athelas this book in the midst and aftermath of him killing her, and she’s always trusted Zero. However, she tends to be dismissive of Jinyeong’s actions in a way she isn’t with the others that sometimes surprises me. He definitely annoys/likes to annoy her in a way Zero and Athelas don’t though, so I suppose it’s the cross he’ll have to bear, haha.
W.R. Gingell
June 24, 2019 at 12:29 AM UTC
Not to worry, Faith–JinYeong wears cologne because he likes the smell 😀 He’s very dress and personal tidiness oriented, as you may have noticed… 😀
Faith
June 23, 2019 at 09:49 PM UTC
I know!! My sister and I have been a little worried that e’s wearing cologne to hide his stench. :/We’re hoping not because it’s kind of a gross thought.
Faith Kim
June 22, 2019 at 11:12 PM UTC
On another note, I also loved this book! I have skimmed it SO many times. The development of Pet’s relationship with all the characters were awesome, and seeing Athelas’ soft spot for her was so great. I also noticed how he treated her more gently each time as well. 🙂 Detective Tuatu really grew on me in this one. He was hilarious, and he made me really attached to his role in their team!
I suspect Pet is an heirling- but if she is we just have to figure out why everyone’s only sensing human in her (besides her not smelling like “food” to Jinyeong) and why, if she’s part Fae, Jinyeong’s spit doesn’t have any negative effects on her.
I would also think Pet prefers all of them in different ways for different reasons, much like you might prefer your mom, dad, or siblings. It’s not that you totally prefer one over the other per say so much as you prefer them in different ways because they are different people who play different roles in your life. In the visceral, childlike wholehearted sense, Zero seems to be her favorite, but she also has a special friendship/mentorship with Athelas that’s different then Zero’s, whereas Jinyeong’s kind of like her buddy and confidante (without words…? Can you be a confidante without using words? Because for whatever reason, that’s what I feel Jinyeong is) in his own, weird way that other two can’t because they’re Fae. So it’s hard to see if she has an ultimate favorite, favorite.
Lynn
June 23, 2019 at 06:15 PM UTC
I see it the same way about her not having favorites but different types of relationships with each psycho. Each have their own subtleties and unique defining features and it is fun to watch them evolve.
Faith Kim
June 23, 2019 at 09:51 PM UTC
Yes, it so fun. 🙂
Faith Kim
June 22, 2019 at 10:57 PM UTC
In terms of hilarity… There is so much hilarity in these books it’s way too hard to choose! But I do find myself belly laughing at Jinyeong the most. Part of it is because I’m Korean, so I can actually understand his antics and what he’s saying all the time. And it’s innately amusing for me to see him busting out in all his cocky, otherworldly vampire glory then muttering to himself about Pet or whatever else is going on like a typical middle aged Korean ahjumma or ahjussi. XD So many one liners from him- some of them funny because, well, he’s Jinyeong, but others just because many of his comments in Korean have this mundanely, hilariously realistic quality to them. In the last post, W.R. Gingell talked about how she incorporated more than just the language into the series, and let me just confirm- boy did she do it well! Don’t get me wrong- Koreans do NOT act like psycho Korean vampires with temperaments like Jinyeong’s… But if there were a psycho Korean vampire with a temperment like Jinyeong’s… he would totally act like that, haha! From habits, to food choices, to the way he talks, against all odds I find myself relate to him on the basis that I understand his culture, even if everything else is cosmically different. And it cracks me up. I mean, c’mon, from the start. A Korean vampire? GARLIC? Hilarious!
Caitlin
June 24, 2019 at 10:27 AM UTC
Not City Between related, but if you have not already read “Lady of Dreams” by WR, I highly recommend it. It has a very different setting and vibe than City Between, but it is inspired by K-drama and really really good 🙂
Lynn
June 25, 2019 at 06:32 PM UTC
I plan on checking out more by this author once I finish this read along. Oh, and finish my stack of library books too, I haven’t seen any K-dramas so I can’t predict how the book fit will be over urban fantasy like this one but I’ll give anything a try.
Caitlin
June 26, 2019 at 12:03 AM UTC
I don’t watch much kdrama either, but if you like regency works (e.g. anything by Georgette Heyer or Jane Austin) or Gaslamp fantasy (e.g. Newt’s Emerald by Garth Nix or Ghostlight by Rabia Gale) I think you will enjoy Lady of Dreams. To me it has the sort of gentle pacing and emphasis on interpersonal relationships that I associate with those books. Honestly though, I love all of WR Gingell’s books. She also has a series of fantastic fairy tale retellings that I am sure any KM Shea fan will love 🙂
Lynn
June 26, 2019 at 12:34 AM UTC
Thanks Caitlyn, that’s helpful! I’ll be giving more of her books a try. Quick question- is she an author who likes love triangles and that type of angst? If so, can you forewarn about which books/series will contain it because I don’t usually do well with love triangles and such but sometimes if I know they are coming can read books with them.
Lynn
June 26, 2019 at 01:06 AM UTC
It does help. Thank you Caitlin! (By the way, I keep trying to spell your name with an I instead of a Y. I don’t know why that spelling is so ingrained. Sorry about that!)
Caitlin
June 26, 2019 at 01:02 AM UTC
No problem! I would say generally no to love triangles and definitely no to angst! I typically dislike those things too 🙂 I can think of only two books (Spindle and Lady of Weeds) where two different male leads fall in love with the same woman. But I would not characterizing either book as angsty, because no one gets betrayed or ends up permanently broken hearted or anything really depressing like that. In both cases, everything resolves beautifully and everyone gets a happily ever after—either later in the same book or later in the series. Hope that helps!
Faith
June 25, 2019 at 02:54 AM UTC
I actually have read it! I binged a bunch of W.R. Gingell books in the wait for Between Floor, and it was one of the first I checked. As you said, very, very different from City Between, but still very good! Well, except for the fact that it was difficult to decide who the girl was going to end up with. In that sense, I suppose it’s similar, haha.
Kate
June 22, 2019 at 08:54 PM UTC
I think Pet is most attached to Zero, she trusts him more than the other two. Her relationships with A and JL are more teasing and occasionally spiky. She’s loyal to all of them though.
Rachael Liankatawa
June 26, 2019 at 06:50 AM UTC
I wish I knew what JinYeong was saying!!!! Maybe we should hire you to make a translation of all the scenes he’s in lol! I love that the 3rd and 4th books have given us more translation. It might be part of the reason why I am liking him better. Of course, I always felt like the author did a brilliant job making it so we sort of understood him even if we didn’t have a clue what the words were.
Faith
June 26, 2019 at 09:14 AM UTC
Haha, if someone made a compilation I suppose I could help our. 😀 Yes, there’s always been a part of me that wonders what it would be like if I couldn’t understand! Ms. W.R. Gingell said that she wrote some of his scenes with the intention of not really wanting the readers’ to know what he’s saying, so I’ve always wondered what the fun would be on the flipside.
Also, “Nae Kkoya. Manjiji ma!” literally means “Mine. Don’t touch!” As a note, if it sounds a little weird because there’s no subjects (i.e. she’s mine/it’s mine), it’s because in Korean oftentimes you just cut out the subject and it’s simply implied in the sentence.
Caitlin
June 27, 2019 at 09:23 AM UTC
Faith, in terms of what it is like to not get the Korean….I think the experience is not *that* different. From what I can tell, JinYeong only very rarely says something that really alters our perception of the scene. Instead I think JinYeong’s Korean dialogue is like the Highway Man reference in this book. You don’t have to get it (and I certainly didn’t) to love, enjoy, and understand the book. But if you do manage to figure it out, it adds an extra little something to the experience—like an easter egg in a movie or video game.
Side note: WR is brilliant at these sorts of crafty and delightful little extras. It makes me very happy on the rare occasion that I figure one out 😀
Rachael Liankatawa
June 26, 2019 at 05:24 PM UTC
Faith that is interesting, Thai is the same way with subjects. I always find the differences between languages fascinating. (Ok so maybe Between Languages could be the title of one of these books and it could have JinYeong translated 😂)
“Mine. Don’t touch.” I can see how understanding the language would make JinYeong more endearing. Of course he eventually won me over anyway.
Elizabeth
June 26, 2019 at 11:35 AM UTC
Thanks so much Rachael, Caitlin and Faith! I’d been wondering about that for a long time. So “mine” instead of “ours” huh? Interesting choice.
Elizabeth
June 26, 2019 at 07:31 AM UTC
Yes, it is really nice that we get to understand more now that Pet does. There are a few things I’ve always wondered about, especially in the first two books. Like what JinYeong says in the first book right after Pet’s awful boss slams something into her leg. He says “Nae kkoya. Manjiji ma!” It’s obvious he’s angry, it would just be nice to know what he said. I liked that he made the boss pay for it.
Rachael Liankatawa
June 26, 2019 at 08:12 AM UTC
I think manjiji means don’t touch so I think he was telling her boss not to touch Pet again. But that’s just my best guess!
Caitlin
June 26, 2019 at 08:54 AM UTC
I spent a shameful amount of time on the internet this read through trying to figure out the Korean. If I got it correct (and that is a big “if”), the whole things translates to something like “It’s mine. Don’t touch it.” Which is both endearing and insulting in true JinYeong fashion lol.
Lynn
June 26, 2019 at 05:53 PM UTC
Lol, yes, it’s very Jin Yeong- a little endearing and a little insulting. You said that perfectly Caitlin!
W.R. Gingell
June 26, 2019 at 09:20 AM UTC
10/10 for your GoogleFu!
( ̄ー ̄)b
Elizabeth
June 24, 2019 at 07:29 AM UTC
I agree. She’s loyal to all of them, and has a different relationship with each. I also think that she sees Zero as as more of a Dad, and that he’s somewhat baffled to be falling into that role.
Caitlin
June 24, 2019 at 10:03 AM UTC
I agree that he is very confused by Pet and the “unexpected things” she does. Like hug him. I loved that scene.
Eleniel
June 24, 2019 at 06:40 PM UTC
Me too- that scene was perfect! My problem is, my mind can’t get around the original descriptions of the psychos from the first chapter of Between Jobs- where Athelas looks about forty and Zero mid-thirties. With Pet being seventeen, imagining a romantic relationship between her and one of them just gets creepy to me. Athelas seems like an older uncle sort of role, and Zero seems big brothery. JinYeong could be like a distant cousin or twin brother- someone you play with and purposely annoy the crap out of. So yeah, I’m kind of leaning toward a ship with either JinYeong or Tuatu, since they’re closer to her age.
Rachael Liankatawa
June 25, 2019 at 07:57 PM UTC
I saw Zero as the main romantic interest in the first 2 books. I think because we don’t actually know what he thinks so I interpreted his actions as having more feeling than maybe they had. All his protectiveness could be taken as romantic interest (even though he would be unaware of his feelings).
And I can’t remember how old Tuatu is but for some reason I had him pegged in his 30s…too old for Pet. For some reason age differences among Fae and humans don’t bother me the same way. So even though Zero was described older I didn’t view him that way. Athelas though seems much too old for Pet. Definitely an eccentricUncle!
I didn’t like JinYeong at all in the first 2 books. He seemed too eager to harm Pet but he’s definitely grown on me in a way that if he doesn’t end up with Pet, I want him to find love somewhere. He needs a happy ending!
Caitlin
June 27, 2019 at 09:11 AM UTC
I think it is fascinating the way all of us seem to have focused on different “clues”, depending on our interests, perspectives etc. In my case, I know there were definitely things I overlooked about JinYeong in my first couple of read-throughs.
Faith
June 26, 2019 at 02:42 AM UTC
It is so interesting for me to see how many people felt that way about Jinyeong for the first two books. I actually thought how much he cared for her was as obvious as how much Zero cared for her- which is to say, not very obvious, but still there in brief, subtle moments. But, again, as I mentioned in a different comment, I was kind of interpreting things from the perspective of a Korean and by default am a tiny bit of a cheater because I understand all the untranslated bits of Korean, haha.
I’m also with Lynn on this one that you both may end up right! I felt the opposite of intuitive for possible love interests. I never even considered Zero and just barely considered Jinyeong as a possibility, and pretty much thought Tuatu was the main option. I felt so slow when I saw what everyone else had to say! And even though I still sense more familial feelings from Zero, I still feel like it’s pretty possible for that to change.
Lynn
June 26, 2019 at 12:47 AM UTC
Caitlin and Rachael, you both may still end up being right and then you get bragging rights, lol!
Caitlin
June 26, 2019 at 12:39 AM UTC
I was also a diehard member of #TeamZero for the first three books (I read them all as they were released and have read them multiple times since). And I think Rachel perfectly explained my logic at the time.
I will just add that (as KM Shea pointed out) a lot of us are not used to seeing this much care, depth, and attention being paid to the formation of plutonic friendships. It is one of the unique and wonderful things about this series. But as a ship happy little reader who prefers to know early on who the romantic leads will be, I tended to interpret things in a certain light. And Zero did things that, in many other books or series, would indicate the beginnings of romantic feelings. Even though he argued the hardest against keeping Pet, he went farther than anyone in trying to protect her. And in book 1, Athelas tried to “warn” Pet about Zero and his inability to love, (a classic Obstacle To Romance in my eyes). Then in book 2, Athelas tried to explain to Pet that there was no logical reason for Zero to be trying so hard to save her life, thereby showing that Zero was growing fond of her. Even fairly prosaic things like the fact that Zero is the leader of the Troika, in another style of book, would indicate the he is The Male Lead. So I kinda leapt to conclusions. Having read more books, and reread the early ones, I am no longer convinced that Pet will fall in *romantic love* with Zero, and I am ok with that. Just took me awhile to catch up with some of you more intuitive folks 😀
Faith
June 25, 2019 at 03:44 AM UTC
Eleniel, I actually felt a very similar way! The early descriptions of how old they look got/gets to me too. When only the first two books were out, until I started looking at what other people were thinking, I thought Tuatu was the main candidate for being a love interest, with a hint of a possibility for Jinyeong. For the whole first two books I loved Zero and Pet (and I still do!), but I thought it was such lovely, big brother/sister type friendship (which is one of my all-time favorites in books, but hard to find sometimes). And, obviously, I thought it was purely platonic, so I was actually really shocked when I decided to check out what other people thought and found out he was seen as pretty much the main contender. Aaand that pretty much no one else at that point even CONSIDERED Tuatu a possibility, haha! (I was like, wow, so many years of reading and I was this off??)
Obviously, fellow readers’ comments aside, when book three came around I started to see the possibility of there being something between Pet and Zero or Jinyeong shoot up quite a bit (especially on Jinyeong’s end), and the possibility go down with Tuatu (it seems like they’re going to have a pretty epic friendship), but, like you said, because of the description of their ages when they were first introduced and the completely platonic, not-even-a-hint-of-romance-in-the-future type of I way perceived Pet’s relationship with Zero for the first two books, it’s hard for me to feel completely comfortable with the thought.
Especially for Athelas- yes, eccentric uncle is the perfect word for him, and he’s just way too old. I really love his and Pet’s relationship as well, but in the uncle way! But it doesn’t seem like Pet’s going to get any feelings for him or vice versa any time soon, so I feel like it’s a bit of a moot point. Jinyeong is and at least looks a little younger (At least, I think he’s physically supposed to look a little younger than Zero), so a romance with him always seemed more comfortable for me.
A question for everyone though. I still kind of feel like Zero and Pet have and will end up keeping an awesome big brother type relationship. Maybe it’s because I’m someone where his age messed with my perspective of it from the get-go, but it still feels like Pet adores him in the protective brother/friend sort of way. And for some reason, I see the possibility of that changing less then her ending up feeling something for Jinyeong, even though she clearly has less then zero feelings of romance for the vampire at the moment (haha, Zero puns unintended, although it’s surprisingly perfect for what I was trying to say).
Faith
June 26, 2019 at 02:13 AM UTC
Yes it does! I was mostly just wondering if I was the only one getting very strong familial vibes rather then romantic vibes. Which is actually mentioned a lot in this thread, but at the times I hadn’t fully realized it. 🙂
Lynn
June 25, 2019 at 06:28 PM UTC
Faith, I too have interpreted her reaction to Zero’s in a non romantic protective role right now. Pet was alone without anyone, much less a family, for so long, that I got the vibe Zero made her feel safest, She sees him as an ultimate protector. She sees him as this gruff guy who has a little bit of the heart of a teddy bear inside hidden away that she sees peeks of now and again. I think the comfort and affinity she feels around him is like related to needing that in her life. At the start of this series she’s missing her family when these three show up and Zero offers her the most sense of protection which she craves. So while I do see their relationship likely to evolve as all friendships do (and kids with parents, brothers, etc. as they grow), I do see that their relationship is likely to be primarily grounded that way and maintaining. Does that answer what you were asking?
Elizabeth
June 25, 2019 at 03:38 AM UTC
That’s a really good point. We don’t know what exactly Pet is, she could live a really long time. In the scenario of Pet and JinYeong ending up together, I had been wondering if Pet would need to be vampirized, or if JinYeong could be turned human again. It might be neither one of those are necessary.
Caitlin
June 25, 2019 at 02:50 AM UTC
I can totally understand the “perception” issue. I have had that same problem with other books (*glares at the copy of Fire and Hemlock on the bookshelf*). And I really can’t picture Pet with Athelas. The “eccentric uncle” title someone else gave him just fits too perfectly. But, for whatever reason, the age between Pet, Zero, and JinYeong bothers me much less. Maybe because we don’t actually know how old Zero is, or how his age is perceived by other Fae? Is he young in Fae years at least? And hey at least JinYeong was born in the same century as Pet. Also we don’t know what Pet is. Maybe she will have a very long lifespan too?
Caitlin
June 25, 2019 at 03:33 AM UTC
Haha of course that would be your favorite DWJ book. Very fitting 😉 I confess to being quite cross with that book for about a week after I first read it back in high school. Imagine, a narrator that isn’t omnipotent?! A protagonist who is not as he first appears?! What a scandalous outrage! But that was just the first time I read it. On subsequent readings, I learned to appreciate it for the masterpiece it is 🙂
W.R. Gingell
June 25, 2019 at 03:16 AM UTC
Wait, you love Fire and Hemlock, too?? That’s such a huge favourite of mine! That one and Hexwood are two of my favourite DWJ books–she was the MASTER of intricate plotting and you-don’t-have-to-explain-everything!
Caitlin
June 25, 2019 at 03:05 AM UTC
Oh, this was meant as a reply to what Eleniel said about the original description of the Psychos and how that shapes our perception of them.
Lynn
June 24, 2019 at 09:16 PM UTC
I’m with you about not envisioning a romance with Athelas or Zero and Pet. Their relationships with Pet have always had an uncle (Athelas) or parental/protective in an older non-romantic way (Zero) vibe to me. It’s not just the appearance of age though that is part of it. Another part of it for me is the power differential. There is too much of a power differential right now for me to feel comfortable with romance with either of them. It is possible (and likely) that with the remaining books Pet will grow into her own and won’t read as young and be on a more even playing field with them but it will be hard to get these books and the current dynamic out of my head even if that happens. Then throw in that age difference and I get uncomfortable with it. It would be a LOT to overcome.
However, with Jin Yeong, there doesn’t seem to be as big of a power differential to overcome. He’s been in this world longer but he’s an outsider just like Pet. He’s only partly accepted and doesn’t have as much power as the Fae seem to have nor the respect. Right now though, I don’t sense any romantic vibe or interest from Pet for him but that could change easily in the future.
As for Tuatu, what is his age again? I’ve forgotten and the character I have visualized in my head is around lower 40’s so I haven’t thought of him as a romantic potential either. I don’t know why that’s my visual and it’s highly likely that I missed his age in the first book because there was so much to take in about all of the characters and situations.
At any rate, for the moment I’m not shipping anyone with Pet because I haven’t sensed any interest from her about any of the characters in the main books. As a matter of fact, the novella is the first time I sensed any possible interest for her in a character and that went nowhere due to the situation. However, once Pet becomes aware of interest in someone I’ll be more invested but it needs to come from her. In this series, she needs to have the power in choice since she has so little choice or power in most everything else going on in her life.